Curse

Mystic_Rose · Apr 12, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

This is my current build:

[Build=OAVDQplHTLB5BCNuQwBVVahvBA]

Here is the order in which I execute the build:

1.)[Awaken The Blood] - For the +2 Curses
2.)[Arcane Echo] - Use SS on one target
3.)[Spiteful Spirit] - Use SS on another target
4.)[Defile Enchantments] -Damage
5.)[Desecrate Enchantments] - Damage
6.)[Signet Of Lost Souls] - + Energy and Health from foes below 50% health
7.)[Hexer's Vigor] - Extra Heal

Any suggestions?

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Awaken the Blood is crap. It's useless, get rid of it.
Arcane Echo is unnecessary and wasting energy on a reactive hex is a bad idea.
Reckless Haste is good protection.
I would say get rid of SS, but you can't not have SS and have an SS bar at the same time.
Defile and Desecrate Enchantments are also unnecessary, one time nukes. You're better off with something else.
Signet of Lost Souls is useful energy management.
Hexer's Vigor should be unnecessary if your monks have any degree of competence.
Right, so that's that.

Now, I suggest you take Barbs and Mark of Pain. These two will probably form the majority of your damage output (and will far exceed anything SS and your two pitiful nukes have to offer).
I also suggest Enfeebling Blood, this is wonderful protection against physicals and can really lighten the load off your monks.
Beyond that, it's really down to personal taste.

[build prof=N curses=12+3+1 soul=12+1][Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Mark of Pain][Signet of Lost Souls][no skill][no skill][/build]

For those two optionals, perhaps something like [Insidious Parasite] - it'll stop a lone physical attacker harming you whilst you focus on the main group.
Mabye a res if you're worried your group will die.
[Necrosis] is reasonable, cheap single target damage and works well with a curses build.

Ideally, I would suggest scrapping SS altogether and taking [Assassin's Promise], but then that'd be deviating a lot, as you asked about an SS build.

zwei2stein · Apr 12, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic_Rose

This is my current build:

[Build=OAVDQplHTLB5BCNuQwBVVahvBA]

Here is the order in which I execute the build:

1.)[Awaken The Blood] - For the +2 Curses
2.)[Arcane Echo] - Use SS on one target
3.)[Spiteful Spirit] - Use SS on another target
4.)[Defile Enchantments] -Damage
5.)[Desecrate Enchantments] - Damage
6.)[Signet Of Lost Souls] - + Energy and Health from foes below 50% health
7.)[Hexer's Vigor] - Extra Heal

Any suggestions?

I ordered skill you chose based on how bad they are with several cutoff lines:

[Hexer's Vigor]
[Awaken The Blood]
------ ^ For gsake, remove them, NOW!
[Defile Enchantments] & [Desecrate Enchantments]
[Arcane Echo]
------ ^ Please remove them. NOW would be good time.
[Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Reckless Haste]
------ ^ What about something with more bang for buck?
[Spiteful Spirit]
------ ^ why not use AP, m8?

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

You've got SS too low down there. Put it above Signet of Lost Souls. Keep the rest like that.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

When your tired of hearing about the Reactive hex hate, here's what I would run.

[ss] [insidious parasite] [parasitic bond] [optional] [optional] [optional] [Hexer's Vigor] [Signet of lost souls]

For the three optionals you can add any of: [Barbs] [Mark of Pain] [Defile defenses] [desecrate enchantments] [faintheartedness] [suffering]

It all depends on the area and team.

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

You shouldn't need or even want both Parasitic Bond and Hexer's Vigor.
And I really have to advise against both Faintheartedness and Suffering. The former, because it weakens SS (take Reckless Haste instead) and Suffering costs too much for too little. Degen is crap.

Mystic_Rose · Apr 12, 2009, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Look, I appreciate your advice but your suggestions are completely altering the build I am trying to make. I mean it is called "Arcane SS" so wouldn't it have to have the skills "Arcane Echo" and "Spiteful Spirit". I understand what you mean about my so-called "pitiful nukes" but I don't understand why Arcane Echo and SS are useless...

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You shouldn't need or even want both Parasitic Bond and Hexer's Vigor.
And I really have to advise against both Faintheartedness and Suffering. The former, because it weakens SS (take Reckless Haste instead) and Suffering costs too much for too little. Degen is crap.

Para is a cover hex. I perfer it to Defile Defenses because of the heal.

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

SS is often regarded as "useless" because it's a reactive hex. That is, it requires the enemy to do something before having an effect. This is fairly poor in PvE, despite the fact that the AI will blindly act through them. You could do much more, with offensive, proactive hexes (Barbs and Mark of Pain), which do not require action on part of the enemies or they scale in power with your own team. SS does not synergise with your team and depends upon the enemy.
Arcane Echo just adds another copy of this, and whilst the damage isn't that bad, it's nowhere near as good as it could be if you added different skills.

The "pitiful nukes" I mentioned, were Desecrate and Defile Enchantments. They are, nice AoE nukes that deal shadow damage, but again, their power requires the enemy to be using enchantments (scales with the enemy, not you) and they have long cast times and recharges. You could do better by replacing these two with Barbs and Mark of Pain.

I (and others) have made suggestions, either heed them or don't.
And why must you dedicate yourself to Arcane Echo and SS? Optimise the build first, then if you really want, name it after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Para is a cover hex. I perfer it to Defile Defenses because of the heal.

Reckless Haste is a superior, AoE cover hex. It has a more useful action too.
If you want Parasitic Bond though, don't take Hexer's Vigor.

FoxBat · Apr 12, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Here's a fair question: what do you do as a necro if

A) there are 0 to 1 physicals on your team.
B) the environment doesn't support minions.

Probably something like the above SS build... although you'd do more damage by just abusing soul reaping with a secondary class.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Reckless Haste is a superior, AoE cover hex. It has a more useful action too.

Doesn't work with Insidious Parasite though. Although it also doesn't work with SS or Insidios (now I'm just talking about general cover hexes) what about [Shadow of Fear]?

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

A) there are 0 to 1 physicals on your team.

Leave the PUG.
Even if the environment didn't support minions, I wouldn't run SS. But this is beside the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Doesn't work with Insidious Parasite though. Although it also doesn't work with SS or Insidios (now I'm just talking about general cover hexes) what about [Shadow of Fear]?

I wouldn't be too worried about that. Insidious is there to mop up the damage done by the physical really (which won't be much if you use Enfeebling Blood). It certeinly isn't there as a main damage dealer and I'd very easily swap it out for something else.
Shadow of Fear is worse than RH, because it has a two second cast time. Even in a non-SS build, I'd be tempted to use RH over it (in HM anyway).

Enchanted Warrior · Apr 12, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Would most here agree, Necro is a support prof, in that it is not a major damage dealer like say a warrior or elementalist. Don't get me wrong Necros are deadly but they mainly use DOT and AOE's. Which help break down the enemy. I think many (including myself when I first started to play my Necro) think they are a good front line attacker. Try not to confuse a solo build with being a bad arse. Solo Necros simply exploit and unbalanced system. As do 55 monks etc. Even Anet has said they reserve the right to alter said builds at anytime and render them useless if needed.

That said SS is good on groups that bunch up, AE helps cast it again doubling the damage potential. For example Glints challenge at CTC, when Destroyers bunch up it's hilarious to cast it on the hordes, they use barrage and literally commit suicide when they fire on us. I use SS/Suffering/Weaken Armor, Infeeble the blood, and on occasion AE and do fine. Take Eve as a battery, or put blood ritual or blood is power on your mm if you take one, you'll do fine.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Here's a fair question: what do you do as a necro if

A) there are 0 to 1 physicals on your team.
B) the environment doesn't support minions.

Probably something like the above SS build... although you'd do more damage by just abusing soul reaping with a secondary class.

[Toxic Chill] [Putrid Bile] [Necrosis]

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

There is nothing exactly wrong with the build in the original post. There isn't too much "right" about it either. The original poster should play with it until he's bored with it and wants to play something that doesn't do damage as directed by the enemy. At least it'll do a bloody huge amount more damage than a SH ele.

If there's anything I'd like to change about the bar, being that it is a reactive hexing bar relying on foes to do stuff and likely run on a piss-poor team, it would be to switch Desecrate for Enfeebling Blood and Defile for Barbs (if there are at least some physicals on the team) or Necrosis. Hexer's Vigor is pretty trash too, as is Awaken the Blood. There's no shortage of suggestions in the thread.

If I was allowed to do anything more I'd switch it to N/R and run it with Serpent's Quickness instead of Arcane Echo.

Switch out Hexer's and Awaken too for any suggestion in the thread that doesn't sound moronic.

Mystic_Rose · Apr 12, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Which suggestions in this thread were moronic?

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Do you really want some authority on that?

This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

[Toxic Chill] [Putrid Bile] [Necrosis]

(well, Necrosis is ok)

And these:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

[desecrate enchantments] [faintheartedness] [suffering]

To be honest, I'm not liking [defile defenses] either. [Rigor Mortis] is better if blocking is a problem.

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

If you have physicals and bring Serpent's Quickness instead of Arcane Echo, take Mark of Pain.

I was lead to believe by PM that you have the NF and Factions PvE skills in which case I'd recommend something like this if you're running with really bad people:

[build prof=n/me][arcane echo][spiteful spirit][reckless haste][ether nightmare][enfeebling blood][cry of pain][necrosis][signet of lost souls][/build]

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Do you really want some authority on that?

This:

(well, Necrosis is ok)

And these:

To be honest, I'm not liking [defile defenses] either. [Rigor Mortis] is better if blocking is a problem.

Remember children, if you don't like something, NO ONE SHOULD!

But seriously never used [Toxic Chill] [Putrid Bile] [Necrosis] [Putrid Explosion]? You're missing out on the fun.

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

But seriously never used [Toxic Chill] [Putrid Bile] [Necrosis] [Putrid Explosion]? You're missing out on the fun.

Toxic Chill is pointless. Single target cold damage? Worthless. And degen is crap too.
Putrid Bile is kinda meh. Though those bomb builds can work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Remember children, if you don't like something, NO ONE SHOULD!

I explained why they're bad choices earlier.